Montag, Januar 15, 2007

More Timbaland

Whoops, so this blog got alot of attention from different websites. Thanx for that.

A few more things about this whole timbaland vs. tempest thing from me.

First of all, I am quite qualified to talk about this. I entered the scene some 15 years ago, first did some musics and graphics on the C64, later bought a PC and made music there.
So when I talk about C64-Arpeggios, I know what I am talking about.

Also I had an email discussion with Ronnie from today which made me think about a few more aspects of this.

I am meanwhile absolutely convinced that timbaland ripped this track from tempest and/or GRG. Thats that. Those videos prove it for me. I mean, you never hear C64-Style arpeggios somewhere in Chart-Music and all of a sudden timbaland comes around with a beat which sounds so much like this track, this aint chance or coincidence. And even if it's not a perfect fit, doesnt matter, I guess the least that timbaland can do is chop stuff up a little bit.

Now, I spent the better part of the day reading around the net about this thing and it seems that on one hand alot of sceners or close-to-the-scene people are outraged while some non-sceners don't see the point.
You can read comments everywhere like "it was on the net for free, so whats the fuzz", "sounds like some crap-midi-file anyway" and so on and so forth.

The point is simply : It doesnt matter. Tempest made the track, and in the second he started the track he gained the copyright for it. This is the same thing all over the world. Do something of artistic value and it's yours. And just because he put it out as freeware doesn't mean anyone can rip it up or sample it. The only thing he gave up by releasing this as freeware is the right to charge people for listening to it.

Secondly, those stupid claims "hiphop is always about sampling". Yes I know. My music is samplebased too. I do know quite alot about sampling and how to do it and all. I keep a list of artists/tracks I sampled from, should the day come that I can make money with my tracks, I will pay for clearance.
And if you sample from artists from the industry, you normally have to pay alot. Which makes sense, really. Black Eyed Peas surely paid alot to Sergio Mendes to make this track they recently did. Because the track is nothing without that Sergio Mendes Sample.
You pay less if you sample some half second and put it back in the background, so the sample is not that important and all.
But all in all, the way should be like "hey, I love this sound of yours, used it in a track of mine
and now I will give you some of the money I earn with this track because without your sound my track would not have been possible this way." Every artist in the biz is very uptight about this and their copyrights and will go after you if you violate that.

And what do we have in this case ? Some frigging 8-bar loops which make up the whole song. If Tempest was in the biz he would get about 95% of the money this track generates, for sure.
But, and here is the point, he is only a "geek" who put up his "music for free on the net anyway".
All that timbaland did was adding some drums. Anyone with abit of musical knowledge and a cracked Fruity Loops can do this.
And that is the frigging point. The major portion of that track is done by Tempest/GRG. It's nice that Timbaland likes the sound and uses the samples, but pay for it and name your source, for christs sake. And share the better part of the money with those artists, because this track would not have been without those two people. Show some respect. (Thats the word all those HipHops are mumbling about all the time).

I would love to know what would have happened if tempest made a track using a (however small) sample from timbaland and got some attention for that.

In the scene rippers are considered people with low morale and respect, in the real world they make millions and get interviews for being such kick-ass producers. This sucks.

I seriously hope that tempest gets the money and backup he needs to sue Timbaland and/or Geffen Records, because I am afraid otherwise they will just sit this one out.


loops hat gesagt…

Sampling will always be shady business. Where is the line between "inspiration" and "stealing"? I guess it has to do with one's morals.

Two things:
1) Samples should technically always be cleared (i.e. get permission from the original artist to use the sample in whatever way you would want to use it for your work)
2) Ideas should not be "stolen". As long as the original artist is "credited" (paid/given recognition/whatever) there shouldn't be a problem really.

It's never cool to pass off someone else's work as your own (it's not always easy to see if something was stolen or inspired, and what is allowed and what is not), but in a case where something is blatantly sampled or replayed and becomes a key part of a new track, it seems quite natural there should be some form of compensation for the original artist, especially if said new production is commercially exploited.

It's just a little silly that a big time producer like Timbaland seems to have chosen to pretend he came up with stuff he didn't. Might be a pride thing, since he has enough cash to pay this little guy for his idea and all would've been just fine.

Looza hat gesagt…

I think there is this line between creative sampling and "stealing" or "borrowing". You can sample music, chop it up, rearrange it, combine it with other sounds and so on, which is (for me) creative sampling.

But taking 8 bars of someone elses song, adding some FX, rebuilding the same bassline and adding some drums is "borrowing", "citing" or "stealing" and should be rewarded in cash. I mean, his creative amount of work on this track is a major one compared to tempest/grg.

I really dunno what came over him, I guess he just thought he could get away with it, but picked the wrong dude/track for that. I can imagine that he thought a track being released online years ago is obscure enough, it's just coincidence that he picked the assembly 2000 winner.

Looza hat gesagt…

And it's also basically a moral question. As I wrote countless times before those people take their copyrights very, very seriously. And it's just a shame that 100% of the cash gets collected by someone who did not put the major amount of work in it. Thats the basic fact it breaks down to, that tempest/grg get nil.

Anonym hat gesagt…

Timbaland with sidstation

Well, I guess we can expect more C64 "samples"...

Looza hat gesagt…

I think we should look for more c64-fragments in his recent songs actually. He would be a total idiot to pull this one off again.

CircleCircle hat gesagt…

and this is the guy producing the new Björk album?


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